Dan Shiovitz ([info]inkylj) wrote,
@ 2005-11-13 17:31:00
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Entry tags:rpgs

Mystery game, part 2
Ok, so this is the session 2 writeup for my mystery game. You should probably read the session 1 writeup in order to have this make any sense.


So, uh, the big plan was to not take six hours, and it took six and a half. Sigh. So let me go over the goals for changing stuff from last session, and see how it went:

Add a few more pictures. I made up something for the footprints which might help, and added a detail or two to the cabin interior map. Maybe even more details should be added there.

Did this, and it was a good idea. Although, like somebody had worried in advance ([info]lpsmith, I think), the non-overlapping footprint lines in the (new) clearing picture probably kept people from asking about the footprint overlap to determine dating. Or maybe they just didn't think of it.

Provide some way for people to make notes that is publically available -- maybe just some kind of webpage that people can add text to.

Did this, and it didn't really seem that helpful. People made a few notes, but I don't think they actually referred back to them very often.

Get some more people to play NPCs to help run more threads at once. I'm not actually positive this is a good idea -- it might just result in nobody noticing any clues that other people pick up, but hopefully the previous example will help with that some.

[info]storme and [info]huskyscotsman helped out on NPC duties, and it was great -- having them there really made it easier to run the game. The one downside of
having them help is I really have no idea who's running which character at any point during the transcript. The ones who said "guv" are all [info]storme, though. It seemed like people missed a few clues from multiple threads, but I don't think it was the main issue.

Use multiple channels to handle multiple threads. We often do this, and I should have done it this game -- too confusing to have two or three conversations going on at once in the room. I had the idea, which I can't decide is good or not, to have the channel name be the NPC name. I guess it doesn't matter much.

I didn't make the NPC name the channel name, we just had one additional channel for talking on, but it was a good idea. At times we probably could have used one channel per player. Also, I didn't mention it last time, but it was helpful to have a #backstage channel to work things out with the NPCs.

Encourage the group to commit to things when it looks like they're spending a lot of time discussing stuff and not going anywhere.

Well, I was better about this than last time, but not great. Part of the issue here is I didn't want to commit them to anything or force them into anything, so I'd try to be hands-off, but then that looks like I'm saying the thing isn't important. I guess I should have just said "ok, we'll now interview each person, let me know if you want to do something different" and stuff. This doesn't help at the end when they're got all the facts and are trying to put them together into theories, though.

Encourage people to not theorize immediately but just collect facts, and then after they have a bunch, encourage them to make some theories and test them. Be explicit about this.

I was also a little better about this, but this definitely needs a lot more work. We still had most of the early part of the game being somewhat aimless clue-collecting, and then at the end it was in the "trying to firm up the theory" stage without having gone through a real "ok, let's make and test theories" stage.

The other thing I noticed is that when people made theories, they tended to be about motive rather than means and opportunity. And the thing is, motive is usually the least interesting part of the mystery, and the hardest to build a case around (although it's important to making the case in the end). I should have been clearer at the beginning and throughout that people should focus on means and opportunity and let motive come up incidentally. This is probably why I kept expecting people to focus on alibis and they never really did.

Be flexible about the Case whenever possible -- change minor details if it makes them in accordance with people's theories.

This didn't actually come up much. I'm not sure if that's because people weren't really theorizing about means/opportunity or what.

Try and give clues a little earlier and more frequently.

Well, I sort of did this, and it didn't exactly help. They did catch on to the snowshoes fairly early on, which was nice, but, well, even though I mentioned snowfall and so on a lot, people didn't do anything with it. I think the deal here, which is probably part of what the forge thread was getting at, is you can only give so many clues before people have to start making theories. Otherwise they miss clues because they don't have any structure to fit them into.

Additionally, I think this session pointed out a few more things.

Don't put in too many red herrings

This should be obvious, but in retrospect the motive stuff is too confusing. In particular, both groups got a little hung up on Mr Reed's crush on Lady Mallory (and whether this suggested alternate parentage for Edmund Mallory), which was interesting and useful for making him another suspect, but really, it was confusing enough without him. Ditto for the physical clues -- I should have just had the fishhook-and-line on the floor below the window, and forget disguising it among bullets and wood chips and stuff.

Encourage people to be thorough

Just like in IF, if people try something a couple times and it gets no results, they'll give up. But if they're on the right trail, that's sucky. I guess the solution here is the same as in IF -- if they're trying to examine people's handkerchiefs, then point them to the guy with no handkerchief if they don't randomly seize on him. And if they're interviewing people, insist they at least interview all the major players before letting them go off on a tangent.

Anyway, like before, it seems like people had fun, but it's going to take a bunch more practice before I feel like I'm doing a good job of GMing this kind of game.

Also, I've gone ahead and added a solution page to write out the solution plainly.


And the transcript of The Missing Folder, Boots, Handkerchief, and Motive is here.

[heatham] Li_Fong says, "I wonder how many more fake sneezes will find me a MURDERER"




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[info]olethrosdc
2005-11-14 01:57 am UTC (link)
Wooh, yes, thanks for the game, I'd like to do it again.

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[info]lno
2005-11-14 03:01 am UTC (link)
How very curious - when I view that link to the transcript from my friends page, the mouseover preview indicates that it leads back to the same page I'm on, and following that link proves it to be so. But if I click the cut-text to view your entry directly, the aforementioned link changes to this page -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/inkylj/9204.html.

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[info]inkylj
2005-11-14 04:51 am UTC (link)
Yeah, like I said, it's not actually up yet, so I have the html as text, so it does something weird (goes back to the current page, I guess).

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[info]inkylj
2005-11-14 06:04 pm UTC (link)
There we go, up now.

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[info]jrw
2005-11-14 10:44 am UTC (link)
>The other thing I noticed is that when people made theories, they tended to be about motive rather than means and opportunity. And the thing is, motive is usually the least interesting part of the mystery, and the hardest to build a case around (although it's important to making the case in the end).

>I should have been clearer at the beginning and throughout that people should focus on means and opportunity and let motive come up incidentally. This is probably why I kept expecting people to focus on alibis and they never really did.


Hmmm. This is a case where you might have been inflexible because you had a preconceived notion for how the investigation should go. Even now, you're thinking the solution is to be even more inflexible (but more direct) about it next time.

There's a motive to the focus on finding who has a motive, though. I was looking for someone with a clear motive so that I'd know who to grill harder on opportunity and means. When you can't take for granted that anyone is innocent, and a variety of people are acting suspiciously, you need to figure out who is a likelier target to spend time on.

I suppose it might sound like it would be more efficient to just check everybody's story for opportunity, but it was taking about fifteen minutes to a half hour to talk to a character, and there was a huge span of time when anybody could have done it. It seemed like from 10am to 4pm, all of the characters had the opportunity and the means.

Thus, motive was the best thing I had to narrow the field down, although that left me thinking it was either William or Reed, both of whom I talked to at some length. And it also failed to lead me to Chickering. Even though he was upset about not getting the position, he didn't seem to me to be murderously unhinged about it. Nor particularly acting like someone who had done such a thing that morning. Before his calm game of billiards? I'm still not exactly sure when the murder happened. And even as it became clear during the push to wrap it up that Chickering was our man, I was wondering aloud what he gained from the murder. Based on what I knew, there wasn't that strong a case for Chickering. I thought he was a red herring, like Edmund.

William was acting suspiciously and partly lying about something, but there were a couple of crucial ways where the evidence said that he didn't kill Sir Giles. Reed had the motive and seemed shifty, but some of the stuff with the boots and I'm not sure what else made it seem like there wasn't a very good case for him, either.

And my attention was never drawn to Barleyhew, who turns out to have been pivotal to understanding the mystery. I'm not sure whether that's my fault or what. I think it gets back to the motive thing. I could sense no earthly reason why Barleyhew would have a motive for murder, so I removed him from my mental consideration to free up brain cells for guiltier parties.

Anyway, that's my (lengthy) take on it.

I should close by saying that it was fun and well worth playing. Thanks for running it.

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[info]huskyscotsman
2005-11-14 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Chickering being misleading was my fault (as I said on #backstage at the time). In general, I think the clues-per-sentence ratio was too low in my NPCs, and I spent too much time on the wacky roleplaying. I did the same as a PC, so hey, I guess there's a pattern there. The NPCs should probably just have given lengthy infodumps for the PCs to sift through.

The one bit that I thought didn't really work so well in either session was the beginning, where the PCs arrive for tea and everybody is in a room together. Even with three people working the strings, it was tough work making all the NPCs seem reasonably lively and also usefully conveying some facets of their personalities. If we'd gotten that right, I feel like the interviews later on could have gone more efficiently, as there'd be less need for introductions and 'so, how are you connected with the victim?'

Two things that might have helped are:
- More structure at the beginning. Have some pre-planned events that give each NPC a moment or two of stage time.
- Somehow give the PCs more authority, so they have fewer qualms about interrogating people, seaching rooms, etc. Hmm, how does that work out in books with amateur detectives? Is there always some family member who specifically asks them to invetigate?

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[info]inkylj
2005-11-16 08:24 am UTC (link)
The NPCs should probably just have given lengthy infodumps for the PCs to sift through.

This is lame, though. But, for that matter, so is tediously checking out everyone's alibis, as Rob points out.

Hmm. On reflection, maybe it would have been better to just have like two time-periods during the day, "before lunch" and "after lunch", and people would either have an alibi for the whole period or they wouldn't. The twist I'd put in here was just finding out that William was lying, therefore Sir Gilford was killed earlier than expected, therefore it's Chickering who doesn't have an alibi -- and that works just the same with two time periods to check instead of eight or however many hours I'd broken it down into.

The other thing, which both you guys get at in your comments, is I think the NPCs needed to be much simpler and more obvious in their motivations. It should have been obvious from the first that Lord Barleyhew was freaked out once the murder was discovered, that William and Edmund didn't get along, that Reed loved Sir Gilford's wife, and that Chickering was mad about William getting the promotion. Even with these broad strokes there's still a mystery and it's not clear who did what.

I agree that it might have been better to formally give NPC a little stage time at the beginning to show off their personality and distinguishing trait -- this definitely happens in books. You and Storme did a great job of pushing this yourselves during the tea scene, but since there were three conversations going on once, I'm sure the PCs didn't pick up on each of them. I guess multi-tasking was a bad idea there -- probably we should have waited until the investigation to let all the players talk at once (set against that, it felt like the second session was kind of low-energy at the beginning and I was anxious to push things along and kick it up, but I dunno, maybe it wasn't worth it).

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[info]inkylj
2005-11-16 08:25 am UTC (link)
Somehow give the PCs more authority, so they have fewer qualms about interrogating people, seaching rooms, etc. Hmm, how does that work out in books with amateur detectives? Is there always some family member who specifically asks them to invetigate?

Hrm. Ok, I think here's a situation where not having the police have much of a presence hurt the plot some. In books, I think there's usually the premise that one or more of the following are true:
- Someone the PCs think is innocent is actually arrested and in jail for the crime (I was planning on tossing Edmund in the pokey, but he played such a major role in the sessions that probably would have been bad)
- The shadow of not knowing who did the murder hangs over everyone (Agatha Christie is big on this) -- keeping deserving couples from hooking up because they don't know for sure that the other isn't a murderer. Or whatever.
- The PCs are cheerfully curious and qualm-free.
- The police say "Hey, you investigate from the inside because you'll have access I won't, being upper-class and knowing the people better than us"

Any of these make the PCs more willing to go poke around, and none of them were really evident here. Probably I should have done a little more of what I did in the second session, where I had Charles Reed say "ok, look, just interview us and get alibis and we'll all be happier for it." That actually happens a fair amount in books too.

So, yeah, a bunch more to think about. Thanks for the comments, guys.

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